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What's That Got To Do With Rock 'n Roll, Man?
Jawing One Out with Chris "Chrissy Boy" Foreman
| Listen To The Interview Audio Stream |
What do you know about Chris Foreman, guitarist for mega-hit band Madness? He's not one of the insular, opaque rock stars holed away in a tropical bungalow made of palm fronds glued together with coconut milk. Quite the opposite: Chrissy Boy has always been the most accessible and fan-friendly member of Madness, dating all the way back to their glory years in the 1980's where it is rumoured he kept the Madness Information Service fan club afloat long after the other band members, and even their management, lost interest. The same holds true today, where Chris is the man at the keyboard fielding questions from the fans over at the Official Madness Website (www.madness.co.uk).
Why does he do it? It's certainly not for the accolades, praise and adoration of the 'net-savvy Madenss fans. You don't see groupies throwing their bras on stage at him during gigs, lavishing him with thanks for answering their emails. He's not trying to promote a constant flow of new singles and albums. Those days are long behind Madness. The excuse can't even be to score some honey-sweet maddette-tail, as third time around Chris, for all intents and purposes and grins and giggles and smirks and smiles, is a happily settled and married man.
Chrissy Boy Reflects Upon Chrissy Boy
Axecam Gone Wild!
After all the emails and fan letters Chris has answered over the three decade career of Madness, for all the hands he's shaken and all the photos he's posed for with fans, who is this man with the musical axe? Quite honestly, beyond the scores of riveting anecdotes and tales, he's actually kind of a secretive extrovert.
Getting to know Chris Foreman: That was the jumping off point for this conversation. Rather than tread the overtrod steps of interviews prior, the thought was to delve into the Man Behind The Madness. This wasn't as easy as I was hoping it would be. "What's that got to do with rock 'n roll, man?" said Chris, neatly sidestepping anything too revealing or sticky. Yes, indeed. What's anything got to do with rock 'n roll? Christopher J. Foreman is about the rock 'n roll... but not entirely. Take a few moments getting to know Chris "Chrissy Boy" Foreman.
Interview by Steve Bringe
Transcription by Lee "Loobyloo" Buckley
Steve Bringe: Alright Madness Central guys and girls, this is Christopher J Foreman, you might know him best for .... he's the drummer of Madness. He's the drummer of Madness (laughs).
Chris "Chrissy Boy" Foreman: That's right. (laughs) Oh, Steve.
SB: So okay, here we go. The most obvious place to start is with the 30th anniversary of Madness, which also happens to be the 30th anniversary of 2 Tone. Does the aphorism "Where the hell did the years go" come to mind?
CB: It does, Steve, it does, although you know, yeah it's a long time, Steve, but there was a kind of break between 1986 and 1992, you know, when the band split up in 1986 but it's been a long time this time round since Finsbury Park. I must say though, myself, I had to take two years out Steve, so it's not really 30 years, in kind of consecutive years, you know, you're keen on that sort of thing aren't you .... but yeah, where did it all go, Steve? Yes, indeed.
SB: Yes indeed. Alright, you know, fans are going to be expecting big things from Madness for 2009 considering it has been 30, not consecutive years, but chronological years. Are there plans in the making already or are the band winging it this time around?
CB: I think we'll be winging it, Steve. I'm waiting for the 50th anniversary! Sorry, I don't know, there's talk of us doing another Madstock in the summer, but you know, we'd like to do something with The Specials but they reformed and they didn't have Jerry (Dammers). He's a bit like me, a curmudgeon, he doesn't ever want to do things and they did a gig, I don't know if you know, in the Isle of Wight...
SB: Bestival.
CB: ...yeah. I saw them on Youtube and it sounded like they were playing really well, but you know, he's so bizarre, Jerry, that he went to the gig (laughs). I mean what's the point? He might as well have got up onstage really, but I've told him enough times, we all have. It'd be really nice if they finally reformed so if they did I think we would definitely like to do something with them, yeah.
SB: Well, Dave Wakeling of The Beat was also interested. Is there a chance that there'd be a whole 2 Tone review, a whole reunion for 2 Tone?
CB: I think it would be good if it's all the original members of The Beat or you know or whatever, which is really difficult because a lot of those bands like The Specials didn't really get on very well which is why they split up in the first place. We all got on. I read Horace (Panter) from The Specials, he's written a book, which someone gave me and I read his book and I must say the first thing I did was I went and looked up Madness to see what pages we were on, to see if we were in it and he says inaccurately that Mike Barson went to music college, I dunno why. He said it's a fact that we conveniently airbrushed out of our history, which erm it wasn't there anyway because he didn't go to music college but you know I enjoyed reading the book and at the end of it I thought, it's a shame because they did a real lot of work and it's kinda like they didn't get rewarded. You know, by doing gigs, like we've done very well out of playing live since 1992. It's a very level playing field 'cos everyone in the band gets the same amount of money, you know what I mean? I think they've definitely still musically got it so yeah it'd be great if they could do it. Sorry, was there a question there? (laughs)
SB: Yeah sure. Sure, why not? You know, we don't really need a question for you to go ahead and expound, so just let you go wild, you know, go crazy. Alright, you just mentioned Horace Panter's book, erm you are into autobiographies, you've told me a few times that autobiographies are your baby. What other autobiographies do you get into?
CB: I tell you what, I've just read an amazing one which isn't really an autobiography, it's fiction. It's about a football manager called Brian Clough, I doubt if you've ever heard of him but, he really, well he was kinda nuts but he was a brilliant football manager and during his career, there's a team called Leeds United and he kinda hated them but it transpired that he manages them, he managed them for 45 days, yeah? The book's called the "Damned United", and I tell you it is such a good book because it's written as though it's his thoughts and it's kinda written as an autobiography so it's written as though he's writing it but he's dead, oh actually, I should have mentioned that, he's dead, so there's no way he wrote it. It's a very very good book.
I'm sure I have read some fiction ones lately but they're the sort of ones you read on holiday and they just go in and out of your head and then you've forgotten about them.
SB: (laughs) You know ... (Steve's phone rings) Oh! Hold on a second ... (answers the call) That was my ex-wife. She's so beautiful, she is the fire of my groin. (laughs)
CB: Is that right? I won't say anything. So you know that ringtone you have on your phone, Steve? "Hall Of The Mountain King"? (Chris proceeds to hum the tune)
SB: That's right.
CB: Shall I tell you something that you'd just love to know? Ah, should I tell him? When we were doing the Dangermen, you know, we were looking through all these songs and I said that we should really do that, we should really do that song (hums the tune again) and we did it! And it's like really like mental and er of course it never came out. (laughs) Maybe I shouldn't tell you that, someone might copy that idea.
SB: You know, Erasure already did it dude.
CB: What, in reggae?
SB: Er, no, they did it in electronic, 'cos Erasure's well known for reggae.
CB: Oh right yeah. That's what I'm saying. A lot of people did it, I think Emerson, Lake and Palmer did it, dude. I think ... maybe not. They did something called "In The Hall Of The Mountain Grille" but I've never listened to it. Maybe it's just a play on words.
SB: Okay...
CB: Come on what's your next question, Steve?
SB: I have no questions. I am totally unprepared for this. No, let's talk about the back catalogue, what's going on with the back catalogue?
CB: The back catalogue is like, frozen at the moment. No, we're just finalising a deal to sort of get it back out there again.
SB: Is this Union Square?
CB: Mmmm ... how did you find that out? Oh, I know you find everything out, you know more than me. Why don't you tell me what's going on?
SB: Oh don't be Suggs about this. That's his wise-ass joke all the time, so no, don't do that.
CB: Is that what he says to you?
SB: Yes.
CB: Oh yeah yeah. Well, it's been somewhat frustrating because we were with EMI for a long time, as I told you, and I had a good relationship with them. I used to spend a lot of time, you know, a lot of those things like "The Business", "The Lot" and just the back catalogue in general. And Bedders, Mark Bedford, he did "The Business", all the artwork, and I dunno if, you must have that package but that is a pretty good package I think and they only intended that to be 10,000, yeah that's how many I thought they'd sell but it sold. Well, it still keeps selling so hopefully that'll be there and hopefully we'll do the second part of the "Singles Box".
SB: Yeah, the "Singles Box 2" damn it! Do it, do it, do it!
(Overlapping chatter)
CB: No, Steve, go on. It's your call, you called me.
SB: Just one thing, when you get back to doing the back catalogue, go find the actual version of the 12" of "Don't Quote Me On That", please.
CB: Oh you're always saying that, Steve. You must have seen my comments over the years. I don't even know where the physical masters are of a lot of the stuff. I tell you Steve, you know it's scary. When we did, this is in 1992, we did Finsbury Park okay? And Mike Barson said, "Oh yeah it'll be good to er..." The thing with Barso is that any time you say anything that he says (puts on a deep voice) you have to say it in that sort of voice...
SB: (laughs)
CB: (continues with the deep voice) yeah that sort of deep voice so yeah, "It'll be good if we sampled some of the sounds from "Grey Day" you know ... wooooohh and all of that." So he was living in Holland and I said right you know, "Cool, that would be fun". So I went to get all the Madness masters, you know all the tapes, the original tapes that we recorded on, you know like two inch tape and I thought they'd be in this high-security (makes the sound of a safe opening) pressurised, climatised vault, and they weren't. They were in some crappy warehouse in the middle of nowhere that had holes in the windows, you know, smashed holes in the windows, it was freezing, and they were just in these boxes, these precious artifacts! And I took them to Clive Langer's studio, and we started taking the stuff off and the tapes, they were falling apart and that was in 1992, Steve. The oxide was coming off them. Do you realise what this means? It's like I dunno, I said to Virgin, you know, we need to get all these tapes, all of them, go through them and digitise them and you know they just never did because they have all the back catalogue, all the hits, and they're stored in some form or another. So yeah, finding that Steve may be a little hard but I told you something there?
SB: Erm you've told me this before, but I thought I'd give you a hard time anyway.
CB: Yeah, but you know, you're right there's the two inch tapes, and they've got 24 tracks. I mean, you could mix them, you could go and remix all the albums but you do master onto a smaller tape, but I, flippin' hell Steve, I don't know where they are. I mean Barso always goes on about some mix, of "The Los Palmas 7" ... "Why are we not using that one?" and I sort of don't even know what it is. He does, you know it's just a slightly different ending. Anyway Steve, point taken. I will try to find it.
SB: Yeah exactly. I mean spend at least the next four or five months looking for it, only to please me. Just to please me, so yeah make sure you take up your precious time with that.
CB: People will be going "Why didn't you use the other one?"
SB: It'll never end, if you start doing that man it will never end. Alright, here we go, encapsulated in the last 30 years of music are countless genres and subgenres and fads in music. You got grunge, you got emo, you got house, a resurgence of garage, pop-punk. Do you see any of these as being as lasting as Madness,'cos you know Madness even though it sounds 80's at times, it's pretty timeless stuff. Do you see any of these as being as lasting as Madness have been through the years?
CB: Well all those kind of genres you mentioned, yeah, it's very amusing isn't it? Like on Myspace and you say "type of music" (laughs) and there's a list miles long, Steve, I don't know who makes all these names up but I think our inspiration is from various sources, you know, reggae, ska, Motown, pop, English pop, so you know it's a kind of crossover. There's not many types of song we wouldn't attempt to do, you know, maybe like heavy metal but I suppose we have done stuff that's kinda heavy if you think about it. As long as it's got a bit of a tune and good lyrics, I mean honestly this new album, if it ever comes out, it's really good. It's really got some good songs on it. There's one called "On The Town" ... you know that song?
SB: Yeah.
CB: That song is actually pretty old, you know the chorus, is something Mike wrote years ago but Woody had this tune, so Mike joined it. I really like that song, I really like it you know. It's like a real sort of Madness song from when we started, do you know what I mean? Yeah, we got some good stuff, I mean I don't know if I'm explaining the longevity or whatever but it is that we, yeah hopefully, have some quite good tunes which is important.
SB: Yep. What are you listening to nowadays?
CB: Me? Oh I sort of buy lots of old vinyl, you know I got this Isaac Hayes album, erm, what was it called? It's absolutely brilliant, hold on ...
(Chris goes off to get the album)
SB: And away he goes ... and now he's back ... (laughs) Look! It's Chef!
CB: "Hot Buttered Soul" ... yeah very funny ... before that, you know, that album has only got four tracks on it right, but they're absolutely brilliant. I listen to a lot of that, and erm trying to think, I don't listen to any contemporary music, I don't listen to the radio much but you know, like I do hear, you hear things you like every now and then. I tell you who I like, it's really weird, I like Muse, you know that band, Muse?
SB: Oh Muse rock dude. I've got everything by Muse, no joke, I've got everything by Muse.
CB: Well I've always sort of thought, you know, I quite like them. They're sort of quite funny and erm, what was that last album they did?
SB: "Black Holes and Revelations".
CB: Yeah is that it? I was in some shop one day, you know record store, and it's like really cheap, like £6.99 or something and I thought, oh I'll get it, you know and it's such a laugh. I play it to the kids in the car. Of course I like, I like AC/DC as you know but I dunno it's hard to think off the top of my head at the moment. You just hear some good stuff and some bad stuff and sadly a lot of it's bad.
SB: Well, Marco's (Pirroni) got a new album out.
CB: The Wolfmen?
SB: Yeah with The Wolfmen. Marco just put out a new album.
CB: Yeah.
SB: Yeah, your buddy.
CB: Yeah I know, I keep meaning to ring him but after I spoke to you. I contacted him, I think it was him and he sent me his mobile number and I might ring him 'cos like I said I was thinking of buying a new guitar and he's the bloke I always ask if I'm buying a guitar (laughs) 'cos he knows a lot about them.
SB: So hey, this kinda follows up on this, and er you know this might be touchy, but is it kind of hard keeping Madness relevant nowadays or is that something that just doesn't concern you at this point?
CB: Well I think, myself, it's funny. I don't really write lyrics but I think all the people who do write lyrics are writing good lyrics, you know that are quite contemporary, if you know what I mean. You know even though some of them, I mean that "Norton Folgate" song goes back to the very history of England but it kinda comes up to the present day. I mean everybody, Lee, he's really good .... don't try and distract me while I'm talking to you ... Lee's a really good lyricist and Suggs, you know, we've written some really great songs so I think we're contemporary. We're contemporary in a way because we haven't changed, if you know what I mean, we haven't tried to become a sort of dance band or you know whatever the latest thing is. I don't know what the latest thing is, there isn't really a latest thing in England that I can think of, you know, I dunno do I. Sometimes I think you remain contemporary anyway, in a way because you're just kinda ploughing on maybe doing something that sounds old-fashioned but then maybe old-fashioned comes back into fashion, if you know what I mean. It's like clothes, you know, I like sort of old style clothes because I think we always have, Madness when we were kids we used to get stuff from charity shops, you know thrift stores, like really old codger's suits, double-breasted suits that we thought were good and then every now and then, they come back into fashion and then they go out but it's kinda like good tailoring so it's always gonna be in fashion Steve. I suppose Madness is like good tailoring, we put thought into the songs, into how they sound and they are like, er what's that word, aberrations, you know where you view half of them and the terrible thing, erm, "I'm Sorry". I mean I didn't like that and I wasn't on that but that was something where I think the manager had a bit of an idea. He was trying to make Madness contemporary, now you tell me if that worked. I don't think you liked it, I know some people did like it but it was trying to make Madness something that they're not. Personally, I think that never works.
SB: Well, you know, like the Rolling Stones, great live act, always will be a great live act, but really there's not much chance of them ever topping the charts again. Do you see kinda Madness that way, does this even concern you at all, 'cos you know Madness is an incredible live act, you guys will always be an incredible live act...
CB: Yeah, I think in our heyday, we had so much momentum, we were incredibly popular. I mean, really when you think about it songs like "Los Palmas 7" ... what? You know how did that get in the charts when you really really think about it. It didn't fit with any other songs but we were just steamrollering along and I mean loads of people like it, my wife says it's her favourite Madness song so it's quite strange. I mean it got played on Radio 2 which is sort of mainly for older people, or it was you know, I'm an older person and I always listen to Radio 2. You know Radio 1's the young, hip, edgy, you know wow, smash, bang, wallop, and Radio 2's a bit more grown-up. But we had that impetus and we haven't got it now. We haven't got it Steve, you know, these songs that we've done, there's nothing that I think, you know, there's plenty that are good enough if we'd have released them in our heyday, they'd be number one, you know "Forever Young" that would be number one, I'm telling ya Steve, if we'd released that back in 1980, that same song it'd be number one. It's a classic Madness song if you ask me, it's simple, got a good chorus, but now it feels like it hasn't quite got that killer instinct but I think a lot of them you know, "On The Town", that would've done really well years ago so it's hard to get your foot back in the, you know "North West 5" I thought was a brilliant Madness song ... stop looking out of the window when I'm talking to you, you look straight at the screen, straight at the screen in awe. (laughs)
SB: (laughs) A bird just ran into the window, dude, you didn't hear that did you? A big old thump, I think it was a friggin' eagle or something...
CB: You're joking...
SB: I am joking but a bird did run into the window. It was probably a pigeon or something.
CB: Did it hurt itself Steve?
SB: Well, you know, if it did then it's on the ground now and its worries are over.
CB: Oh okay, well that has happened to me a couple of times. I was at my father-in-law's up in Newcastle, it's like the frozen North, it's just so cold so everyone's got these conservatories, you know. like a glass building stuck on the back of their house and in their conservatory ... you still there?
SB: I'm still here.
CB: And like one day, my father-in-law who's like a great big fella like you, not scared of nothing and he went "Oooohhhhhh" 'cos this bird had flown into the window, it must have flown and seen the window but then also there's glass on the other side, so it didn't realise, so it flew into this window and killed itself basically Steve and I had to go and dispose of the body and I was on holiday and something like that happened. A little bird flew down, but this is a much nicer story, hit a window and sort of knocked itself out, and it's sort of staggering around in this place. We were renting this place, and then eventually it flew off, sort of funnyk. Anyway sorry I digress...
SB: Yeah, I was gonna tell you the story of the Sheraton, either the Sheraton or the Hilton, in Munich, it's got big old glass, and this big covered area, the whole front of it's glass and there's just dead birds all over in front of the building so, but you know what? We're talking about birds instead of talking about Madness so that's kind of stupid.
Okay, we're gonna go with the three decade theme here again. Alright, the last three decades have also seen international political strife wax and wane and in the early 80's the US was often looked-upon as the big "shit-stirrer" on the global scene and in 2008 it's not much different.
CB: (laughs)
SB: Hold on, I'm not done! What do you think is the responsibility of countries like the US and to some extent the UK when it comes to international relations?
CB: Oh Steve, what's that gotta do with rock and roll man? Is this to do with the interview or are you asking me as a personal friend of mine?
SB: Yes, that's what it is.
CB: Before we came to America, you know, 'cos we really wanted to come, we'd seen it on the films and everything. And when we got there we thought "Do we like American people?" and we kinda didn't. But then after a while we did. You know what I mean and there was this guy who, in the 80's, he was from LA, called Hein Hoven who was a record producer, he produced the Stray Cats. And he was sort of one of my best friends, I dunno you just get a bit more of an understanding. I don't think of America as the "bad guys" at all but erm do you know what I mean? I know there are some terrible thing going on like in Iraq or whatever but you do get a few bad apples. I think a lot of those guys who go in there 'cos it's their job and because they think they're doing something good but I think they get a shock when they get there. I mean Afghanistan, what is anyone doing there? Like our troops, it's the same thing, I mean I really like our army, they're pretty good guys, they get sent there, they have to go there but I don't think they want to be there. I don't think they should be there. 'Cos they ain't really gonna win anything, are they?
SB: So you're not going to be writing a sequel to "Uncle Sam" any time soon then?
CB: Well, I dunno, Lee wrote that song and I don't really know exactly what that was about to tell you the truth. I mean "Blue Skinned Beast" was about England invading the Falkland Islands you know which, I mean most people in England didn't even know where they were. You know, if you'd have asked me before that happened I would have thought they were in Scotland or something. You know, we didn't invade them I suppose the Argentinians did because they had a totally corrupt government who was trying to be a bit of a jack-the-lad but it's not really a good thing is it? I think, and this is only my view Steve, like the IRA, I mean, you're never gonna stop the IRA until you sit down and you talk to them and I know the Taliban or whatever are like beasts but they must want something, so maybe that would be the only way to ... and maybe in Iraq, too, a bit of negotiation. I mean, all that business about weapons of mass destruction, it was just a joke wasn't it really? There wasn't any was there?
SB: I'm not gonna get into it. The guy acted like he had them so ... and it turns out he didn't so he's just a big asshole is what happened. Anyway, your 2 Tone contemporaries, actually Dave Wakeling mentioned this at one point, he couldn't understand how anybody in the late 70's or early 80's in England could write songs without being political. What do you think about that? How did you guys keep away from writing really political songs until later in your career?
CB: Again, it's a hard one 'cos I don't really write lyrics. I think our first album and probably the second they were all about us growing up. Yeah, they did "Stand Down Margaret" didn't they and things like that.
SB: Yeah and The Specials too.
CB: Yeah I think both of those bands did things that were more political than us. We did get involved in political things, but we tried to be apolitical I suppose. Because I tell you what, I don't trust any politicans really. I'm totally disillusioned with the whole thing now apart from the Green Party. But yeah I dunno, 'cos I really didn't write lyrics, but I don't think we ever felt like we needed to, there were other things for us to write about. I mean Lee was erm ... animal, no not "Animal Farm" ... "Tomorrow's Dream" was about experimenting on animals, something Lee felt strongly about. On monkeys. Some of the songs were very oblique references to things, I mean you wouldn't know "Blue Skinned Beast" was about the Falklands, would you? Lee never really says what his songs are about but I think with us in the band, generally you show us a lyric and we'll know what it's about, I dunno how, it's like some sort of telepathy because you know how he writes those words really.
SB: How about CND and Greenpeace? You guys got into that, you were supportive and it shows up on your record labels. Is it something you guys still feel strongly about or was that just something for the 80's that you felt strongly about when you were younger?
CB: Well like I'm concerned about the environment and I think some of the band are still members of Greenpeace. I think they do some pretty cool stuff generally, I mean they get out there in front of whaling ships in a tiny little dinghy, you know, I mean I wouldn't flippin' do that. CND, I dunno, it's kinda like, there isn't any weapons of mass destruction are there Steve, any more? I mean we're always trying to stop all these people from building them, you know 'cos they're the bad guys but I mean no one's really dropped one except (coughs) the USA (laughs) on Japan. Have they? I'm sorry. What were you saying?
SB: Nothing. I was saying absolutely nothing. Erm this is pretty morbid stuff, let's move on to something else.
CB: No, it's all part of life, isn't it Steve?
SB: Yeah it is. Well you know if it wasn't for the "Keep Moving" album I would never have known what Greenpeace was. Flipped it over, there's this little dove on the back of the cover there. I was a kid, I was about 13 at the time and I had never heard of Greenpeace, so you guys were exacting political and environmental and social change all the way across oceans.
CB: Yeah well I think the political thing, yeah thanks Steve that's very touching. Did you become a member?
SB: Er, no, I joined the soccer team. I didn't join Greenpeace.
CB: Okay cool, well there you go. You had a choice, you took the wrong one. We never wanted to politically browbeat people, with any kind of political message, we were obviously against racism and things like that, fundamental things but yeah, that's what it was.
SB: That's what it was. Alright, let's go with something lighter 'cos that just got too morbid. I don't know why we even talked about that crap for so long. Okay, TV shows, what are you watching nowadays, any favourite comedies?
CB: The thing is Steve, I just do not watch television. I think it's partly that I get too scared, you know, if there's some kinda series, I'll start watching it and I'll become addicted to it. The only thing I watch on a regular basis is "Entourage". You know that show?
SB: Love it.
CB: Er, who's in it? You know what I'm talking about.
SB: Jeremy Piven. He plays Ari Gold.
CB: Yeah, Ari, He's cool. It is just so funny, there's just something about it you know 'cos it's on here at some God-awful hour at night, well not a God-awful hour but it's not on at a prime time. But you know it's got swearing, they're flippin' always smoking pot, but there's just kinda something about it. I mean we are like way, way behind you, but some of the people they have in it are so mad like them, Nick Nolte was in it and you know he's really kinda mad but he is really kinda mad in real life isn't he and he's kinda mad in that. He wanted to paint Johnny Drama, and just recently you know Martin Landau? He's a film producer, he's hilarious, and the one I saw the other day, they were playing golf, Ari Gold was playing golf with the studio boss, 'cos he wanted Vince to be in this film and the guy wouldn't let him and then you know the guy went mad on the golf course and had a heart attack and died so it was all very, er, a bit morbid actually but anyway that's really funny so I always regularly watch that. Other than that, it's always like my reading things, I like watching documentaries. To tell you the truth Steve there's nothing on TV is there really.
[Ed.note: Chris emailed this morning to insert the revision that it was Gary Busey and not Nick Nolte he was referring to.]
I know there's things like "The Wire" which I haven't watched you know about these undercover police, do you know that thing "The Wire"?
SB: I know that "The Wire", it's done now, they did the last season.
CB: Yeah well, I haven't really watched that but it's sorta like when you get addicted, that other police thing "The Shield".
SB: Well, that's in it's last season, too. With Michael Chiklis.
CB: I don't even know what channel it's on now. I just paused this thing ... I like looking at you it's reassuring. I need to put you on the full screen. Hold on. Oh I can see myself a lot bigger. Yeah TV so ... what do you watch Steve?
SB: Ah "Dexter". I watch "Dexter" man. Actually, I watch "Entourage", too, but "Dexter" is my favourite. That's the one with the serial killer who kills other serial killers. Michael C. Hall, the guy from "Six Feet Under"...
CB: Oh yeah, Thommo really likes that. You see "Six Feet Under" I started kinda watching it and then I sorta stopped. I tell you what I watched which is real crap ... "Heroes".
SB: Dude, I watched one episode and I threw it in the bin.
CB: Did ya? The first series, I really liked it and the second series really sucked. Now you only watched one episode Steve, you can't judge a series on one episode.
SB: Well I did, so you can't tell me what to do. You're not my real mother! You're not my real mother! (laughs)
CB: (laughs, donning an appromixation of a woman's voice) But I am, Steve!
Nah, you know what I mean, you can't judge things on one episode. But yeah my wife just totally hates it so that's always good you know so I can just watch that, Felix watches it with me you know. But it is kinda crap, you're right but what it is, there's all these different characters as you know, and the Japanese guy who's called Hiro, I just kinda love him he's just really funny, he should have his own series because he always just goes off and has this adventure. But like at the moment we're on the third season and the first episode was good, the second episode was good, the third episode was a load of time-travelling twaddle. I didn't know what was going on, I was confused Steve. So yeah I guess I might still watch it. If you don't like it then that says it all.
SB: That's right. I am the arbiter of good taste the world over. Okay right then, you know that Looby girl, that crazy Looby girl, she's actually shorter than you.
CB: Yeah yeah.
SB: You know, that little Munchkin girl.
CB: Yeah, I've met her Steve.
SB: Yeah with the blonde hair. Well, she wanted me to talk to you about Crunch! 'cos she absolutely adores Crunch!
CB: Yeah, right.
SB: What progresses with it? You and I spoke about this before, you were talking about maybe putting up some digital downloads at some point of the unreleased stuff, er, what are you gonna do with it, what's going on with that?
CB: That's a good question Steve. It's on this kinda really weird format, a machine called an F1 which was the first digital recording machine. It was before they had DAT machines and basically it was a Betamax tape, right, and you could record onto it digitally and we mastered all these songs onto this tape so I had to find somewhere that had a machine that I could even listen to them on. I did find someone and I rang him and it was all like, "Yeah I'll come up next week," and I never bothered again. I found somewhere in Brighton so I should get onto that but I mean you've probably got all those songs anyway, Steve. Yeah, I think you sent me a list once and you had a comprehensive list, but yeah, as usual you told me what I had. (laughs)
But you know Steve, I'm kinda chilled out, living in Brighton. I mean we did a gig here, months ago, me and Thommo and it was good 'cos I tell you what Steve, I didn't have to worry about anything. I just turned up and played. Well, I still worried a bit. When we were doing it in London, when I lived in London I had all the equipment, I had to organise everything, 'cos Lee's like very slack, but you know if he said to me he'd sorted a gig out somewhere then I'd go and do it. But I'm not like busting myself to do it but it is enjoyable, I like the guys in the band a lot and it's good playing with them, you know what more can I say Steve. So who knows what will happen?
SB: Well, you've mentioned to me before that playing with Madness, you have no worries about getting up onstage 'cos it's like preaching to the converted. How is it with Crunch!? Do you feel you have to earn it, you have to work harder onstage than you would with a Madness gig?
CB: Most of the people that come know the band, same old stuff, you know we don't get enough time with Lee to write any new songs. We did have a few new ones, like they were new a few years ago and it's funny because before I moved down to Brighton, Lee said do you wanna have a rehearsal and I said well, what for and he said oh nothing you know and it was fun like what we started doing, we went to this rehearsal place, me, Lee, Tad the bass player and Louie the piano player, sometimes Spider, and we just played music. That's why I was in the band, you know, 'cos it was fun. That was just before I moved to Brighton, we were doing that. Obviously, it's a bit harder now. I don't really speak with Lee as much as I should, but he's always writing songs.
SB: How does it differ writing songs for Crunch! as opposed to writing songs for Madness?
CB: That's the thing Steve, like a lot of those songs I did with Lee, some of those unreleased ones, right? If Madness had done them they could have been really phenomenal but I've kinda got this protective thing about them 'cos I played them with those other guys all those years, you know, went out, had things thrown at us and things like that, so I have to get over that barrier. But I said to Lee that he and I should write some songs for Madness, which we haven't at the moment although there was one that we did but it didn't get finished off but I am quite up for doing it but it's two different things I suppose.
SB: Alright, the axecam, always have to ask about the axecam, er, trademark Steve Bringe of course. It's gone through several hardware upgrades since its original inception. What piece of hardware are you using for your video escapades nowadays?
CB: Well, I'm using, the last thing we did, I'm using this thing called a Flip Video, f-l-i-p video, it's just a dedicated video camera, that's all it does. I mean I've got this upstairs, I could go and get it but you don't wanna see it, do you? I mean if you watched that film of me or pictures of me at the Dance Brigade thing, I used it there. It's really good you know, it's small, you can get an hour's worth of film on there, it just uses two ordinary batteries... I'll go and get it. Hold on. You take five, Steve.
SB: Okay, I'll take five. Have fun. And there he goes and so here I am looking at drapes, er, you guys enjoying this so far, I'm enjoying this like crazy. I wonder if his, no he doesn't have a cat but he seems like the kind of guy who should have a cat but he doesn't ... erm, does he look like a cat kind of guy, not a dog, he looks like he should have a cat. There he is! Hello!
CB: There's a kind of a delay on this, Steve.
SB: Is there a delay
CB: Yeah, 'cos your mouth moves and then ... that's so cool. Anyway, this thing ...
(Chris goes off again)
SB: And there he goes again ... and he's turning on the lights ...
(Chris returns)
SB: You are forcing me to have to edit all this audio because you keep on walking around and stuff, so I hope you're proud of yourself.
CB: A man of your talents I thought it would be really easy. Anyway this thing, I'm always looking at new technology, you know like low-fi technology and this thing's just perfect 'cos the first thing I used was the camera from a mobile phone, the Samsung D600 and then I got this phone which is a Nokia N95, which does very good quality film but the trouble with this one was I liked to have the camera in my guitar strap (sideways), I didn't use this that much, when we were recording I used it and then I got this thing which looks very similar. This is a Flip Video, you turn it on, there's loads of things on the internet that they show you, it's got a little screen, you could probably see me on that screen, can you see me? It's filming me see?
SB: Oh wow, that's spooky.
CB: Anyway, what you do, you film stuff with this yeah and it's just so simple, it saves it into little things and watch this Steve. Do you see that?
SB: Oh, it's got a little USB deal on it.
CB: You go bang into your computer and it has a kinda dedicated link with Youtube, so you go on this thing and it says edit the video, send it to Youtube, you type in your Youtube account and it uploads it. The only trouble is, I mean Youtube's great, but it's hard to get your film good quality, 'cos this does really good quality film for what it is you know. It gets compressed and goes on Youtube and gets a bit crappy but there you go, Steve.
SB: Can you download it to something other than Youtube?
CB: Oh yeah, you can put it onto your computer and then you can burn it onto a DVD, you know, whatever, yeah and it's really easy. I can't remember how many gigabytes but it films for about an hour and they've now done a smaller one but I looked up the specifications of the smaller one and it wasn't much better. But that's what I use at the moment, a Flip Video camera.
SB: You've been doing this, you've been in the music industry off and on for 30 years, have you ever had a stalker? Not me. Have you ever had a stalker?
CB: Well you know I used to have this car called a Carmen Ghia, a red car and it was really nice. Do you know what they're like, do you know what they look like? Like a Porsche.
SB: A little Volkswagen.
CB: Yeah, I had one of those, and one day, this guy knocked on my door, he said hello, he was a fan of Madness and he'd got my licence plate and I dunno how, he worked for the licensing, and he found out my address, you know, so it wasn't really a stalker but I said, "Oh. Great." and just shut the door ... Ya creep! But no I haven't, I sadly haven't, I haven't had a real proper one.
SB: Would you like one?
CB: Er ... no no.
SB: Because I know a couple of girls, do you want their names?
CB: (laughs) Very funny.
SB: Yeah it is funny. Next question. Band dynamics: It's really no secret that you've had your run-ins with people in the band but for the most part you guys keep working together. What's the secret, what do you do to continue making Madness a viable entity?
CB: Well if you mean ... how do we ... carry on, if we all hate each other. It's not like that, as you know I've had many a run-in with Chas, yeah, but that's it, it's not like some smouldering resentment, you know what I mean? We have it out, he and I, and at the moment I'm not on his sorta best friend list, but you know we have the occasional e-mail and sometimes they're quite, you know, okay. So you know I love everyone in the band, even Chas, he knows it and we all do. We all argue and bitch with each other, some more than others. The main sort of bitching people are me and Chas, (laughs) me and Barso or Barso and Chas, any kind of combinations of us three. Woody's kind of really sensible, he's become the elder statesman of the band in some ways, he's really funny. Bedders just stays out of it, Suggs stays out of it and then Thommo does these little weird, it's mainly e-mail crap, Thommo does these e-mails that no one understand.
SB: Kind of like his lyrics.
CB: Yeah, you know, I left the band and I came back 'cos they were getting quite good, they were writing some good songs and I thought I wanted to be involved in this and one thing I did I thought we have to find somewhere to rehearse that we can just go to whenever we want, and we found this old disused office block in Highbury and I tell ya Steve, once we got there and we got the PA set up and I had an argument with Barso and then after a few days it all leveled out, we were so creative really, by the end of that, we'd wrote about 18 songs and they weren't crap songs either. Well, some of them were but they were generally pretty good. That proved to me that we could still do it, despite all the arguing and this and that 'cos we do enjoy playing music together and that's the important thing.
SB: Talking about these new songs, just what is holding up "Norton Folgate" right now?
CB: We're trying to get some sort of deal to release it. We've tried various ideas and at the moment we may get some sort of financing deal in place and then release it through a third party, another label 'cos I know a lot of people go, "Why don't you just do it on Stiff?" but it's not really like that. Stiff Records doesn't exist, and neither does Zarjazz 'cos Zarjazz Records never really existed, you know, it wasn't some big office block that we owned, we did it through Virgin Records and it was a better deal for us at the time. One wants to be realistic and the music industry in England, and probably most of the world, isn't very healthy. It's not driven by emotion anymore, it's driven by business which is fair enough 'cos it should be a business but you know people say, "Oh, Madness, what was their last album, oh the Dangermen thing, that didn't do very well," and that's the way they look at it, they don't like listening to what we've done and going, "This is fantastic, let's give them millions of pounds," unless they want our souls for the rest of our lives. But it will come out and it will be really good and I just think that it's been ten years since the last one so what's another couple of years? Obviously, doing a kind of showcase for it wasn't too clever, in June or whenever it was.
SB: You're talking about the Hackney Empire gigs, right?
CB: Yeah.
SB: So how was that? You played almost exclusively new songs in lieu of a greatest hits package, how did that go down, was the audience there with open arms or were they kind of grudging acceptance?
CB: It went down really well Steve, but we put a lot of effort into it, everybody did, it was quite a theatrical thing. That will be coming out hopefully on DVD, probably before the flippin' album, but that was good yeah, it was really enjoyable, good fun. I could have done a couple more new ones myself but some people get a bit worried, but the people that came I think they genuinely knew what we were gonna do, they didn't think Madness are gonna do all their greatest hits. You know, I tried to not even have that mentioned in the publicity that we were doing any at all, I mean obviously we would have done them. But yeah, that was good, it cost us money but it was good.
SB: That's cool, that's kind of interesting. Everybody I knew who went to it was pretty darned excited about the whole thing. Okay, so let's ask you some family questions. Alright, you've got two young ones now, you've got a couple of older children, you have a beautiful wife, you have a new home. Did you ever see yourself as being Chrissy Domestic Boy?
CB: I always was, Steve. You know, I think people forget when the band started, when we became successful I was 23 and I had a three-year-old kid, you know, so up until then I had been "Old Pa Foreman" anyway, taking him to school, all the things involved with having a child, so I was kinda like that. And then I suppose I regressed for a few years in Madness, yeah, ever since I sort of regressed, but I never thought that far ahead in my life. Sometimes when these kids are running round, I say to my wife that I'm getting too old for all of this but then she says about Rod Stewart, there's always people older than me knocking kids out. I think Rod Stewart's a bit older than me and I think he's quite a dapper fella so there you go. It's nice having kids and that's why at the moment my life's pretty settled so I didn't see it happening but it's not like some terrible shock. I thought I'd be all on my own.
SB: What type of advice do you have for parents-to-be? You have four of them now, what wisdom can you share on the art of child-rearing?
CB: I'm not really that good a parent but there's this book called the "Contented Little Baby Book" and some people really are opposed to this book, they call it the "Fascist Baby Book" and things like that. What it is, you don't have to follow everything in it, but one thing is this, Steve, it's a very hard thing to do, but you know when you have a small child, once they're kinda off-the-breast or whatever and they're in their own cot, they'll cry, they will cry, Steve, they will cry and it will break your heart but you have to leave them to cry and believe me it takes five days, maybe more and they'll cry less and then they realise. Like my little girl she's flippin' brilliant, I put her in bed and she goes to sleep. Some people cannot believe this. I know that she was crying the other day but that was a clothing incident, a clothing malfunction, she sort of tried to take her top off and got it all the wrong way round and she wasn't happy, but it does work, Steve. I know people that'll keep the kids in the bed with them and the kid's like six years old, still sleeping in their bed, you know, or won't sleep in his own bed, I don't think that's right, you need to cut those ties.
I went to see a mate of mine a while ago and it was the same sort of thing, you know, he's got his kids, you know, you can't have your own life. I try to get my kids in bed by 7 o'clock in the evening and Felix doesn't like it but then he is 15. Get that book, if you don't like it you can throw it away. That's what I say 'cos you know you'll be a slave otherwise. A slave.
SB: Okay, going back on "Norton Folgate", we talked about this quite a while ago, you were saying at the time that the canon of songs from "Norton Folgate", they kind of lack an obvious choice for a single. Do you still feel that way or is there anything that really stands out right now that you think's going to be a good single off the album?
CB: I'd say that "Forever Young", I somehow think it could be a hit in Europe, I don't know why, in France or somewhere, I don't know why cos it's almost sort of corny, that song but personally I really like it, it's a really good song. I don't know, if you get one pretty good hit then you got that momentum going again, it's very hard for us. As well, people in the band haven't got time to do stuff as well.
SB: You have a couple of songs that you wrote for the new album, didn't you?
CB: Yeah.
SB: Yeah, are they good? Are they crap?
CB: They're really good. One's really good and one's a bit of a mess, the arrangement of it. The one that's really good we were gonna do it at Hackney but it's a bit slow, but it's got good lyrics, you know, Suggs wrote.
SB: What's it called?
CB: It's called "One Fine Day" and it's one of those when you're reaching the end of your life, you know, it's quite Brechtian, you know, Bert Albrecht, it fits in with everything else anyway. It's hard to explain what it's about, but yeah it's called "One Fine Day", before they send in the clowns. (sings) "Before they send in the clowns..." But it's really good lyrics, Suggs is writing some really good lyrics lately.
SB: Good. Okay, X-Box 360, the Wii, or Playstation 3, which is the ultimate gaming console?
(Chris steps away)
SB: And he's getting up and he's gonna bring it over to show to me 'cos he just loves to show off his technology. Wait, that didn't sound good at all, did it? Erm ...and there he is ... Halo 3! X-Box 360! Okay, I get the point, put it down and pick up your phone again.
CB: It's Felix's but it's like, I would get a Wii, I've had a go on them and they're really cool, I would like one of those. I always get Felix the game console that falls by the wayside. Dreamcast, remember the Dreamcast? Best thing going they were then they sort of stopped making them. The Gamecube, you know, stopped making them. I suppose the Gamecube became the Wii, didn't it? I used to play video games a lot but I don't much anymore but he's (Felix Foreman, Chris' son) gone away, he's gone to his mum's so I got the X-Box downstairs and as soon as I've done talking to you, I was gonna play Halo 3 which I'm not very good at but they all have their own thing. I mean, the Playstation 3 it kinda looks good, I mean, what about you, Steve, what are you packing there, buddy?
SB: We've got the Playstation 3 and we've got the X-Box 360.
CB: Can you do a lot of things with the Playstation 3? You can play DVD's on it. Is it noisy, the fan?
SB: I don't notice it. Of course, my kid has got the volume up on the TV so loud I can't tell.
CB: 'Cos the fan on the X-Box is pretty loud but it depends what surface you put it on. Anyway, what's this gotta do with rock and roll? But I don't mind talking to you, Steve.
SB: Well, you know we don't always have to talk about rock and roll, you know there are other things to life than rock and roll. You were talking about "Sorry" a little bit earlier ... you want to talk about rock and roll, we'll talk about "Sorry" ... at the time when "Sorry" came out, you were a little bit miffed, or maybe just kinda concerned, that this song would be included in the history books. Do you feel kind of protective of the legacy of Madness and how future generations are going to see Madness?
CB: Yeah I mean it wasn't that good was it, funnily enough 'cos Lee Thompson, he's not on that song and I'm not on it, I don't think anyone is really much, but you know we didn't even go to the studio, and when we were doing the tour in 2006, during that song, me and Lee would walk off stage in kind of disgust and then the camera would show us in the dressing room, reading a newspaper while the band were playing the song but then we would eventually start dancing and quite enjoy it. But it was something between the two because Lee wouldn't play it, I would just play along with it because it was kinda like a pre-recorded track if you know what I mean. The band were playing, that was one of the problems with it, nobody was really actually playing on it, oh and it didn't have much tune either so I don't think it would be on any greatest hits albums.
That's another conundrum because with a CD you can get a certain amount of music on and I don't think to my knowledge yet that they've worked out how to get anymore music on a CD than what you currently get. So therefore, like Divine Madness it always has like a track knocked off like "The Sweetest Girl" isn't on it. Although "Johnny The Horse" is and I think "Drip Fed Fred" but I think "NW5" should be on the greatest hits album so I don't know what we'll do about that. I always think "Sorry" doesn't quite sit in there, neither does "The Harder They Come", there's a few other ones that kinda went off the beaten track.
SB: So what do you see as the legacy of Madness, you know, after all is said and done and after the band and the original fans are all pushing up daisies, how would you like to see Madness remembered?
CB: I don't know, Steve. Fondly? I don't think we're any great innovators, we may have influenced a few people along the way and I think the people who are influenced by us eventually found their own niche, their own style, do you know what I mean? There's no one really today who you think, oh, that sounds a bit like Madness, but then what do Madness sound like? You know you might hear an old Kinks record and think, oh that sounds a bit like Madness. They were before Madness, Steve.
SB: Well, you might not believe this, but when I first picked up No Doubt's album "The Tragic Kingdom" I thought it was at least in the line of Madness, at least thematically like a Madness album. It didn't sound like Madness but it felt like a Madness album and as it turns out you guys were a huge influence on them.
CB: Yeah, well, that's what I mean. I haven't heard that album. Is that the one with that big ballad on it that was their big hit?
SB: "Don't Speak"?
CB: Yeah, I mean they're nice people, she's a really nice girl. They used to really go on about Madness this and Madness that and it was good. It was nice of them to say it but then I think well they don't sound like us. That's exactly what I mean, that they were influenced by us but they didn't write a load of songs that were like Madness songs as it were.
SB: Well, you know, you've got your 30 off-and-on years in the music industry. Do you have any regrets?
CB: A few but then again too few to mention. I don't know, Steve, there's a couple of things maybe business-wise I wouldn't have done but I think on the whole we've been pretty good.
SB: Sweet. Alright, let's close this off. Can you tell us your most memorable moment in Madness lore? Regale us with your story-telling acumen, or maybe just a very funny story that you have. And at this point I have to say that there's no picking on Chas. So anyway, tell us a story.
CB: Oh you know, whenever someone asks me that I can never think of one. There's one thing I was thinking about the other day and it's kind of a bit rude... you know in America, you know the word "bollocks"?
SB: Sure.
CB: You don't use it. We used to go into airports when we were bored in America and say, "Could you page my friend? He's called Harry Bollocks." So they'd go (puts on an American accent), "Calling Mr. Hairy Bollocks." Oh how we laughed, Steve, but that's a very sort of trite comment to make. It's really on the tip of my tongue, you know, some really funny anecdote.
SB: Is there any particular recording session that you find memorable? Was there a particular album or single you were working on that's fairly memorable?
CB: That's the hard thing Steve, like when you start off right, it's all really exciting and after a while, I mean, as you said to me today, it's a job, it's not like any other job, but it is a job. It's like the first time we went on Top of The Pops, it was so exciting and they used to have this thing that was really a pain. There's a Musicians Union, right, so to make sure all the musicians got their fair share of money. Say like you had a string section on your song and you're gonna go on Top Of The Pops, they made you re-record the song, right? Now, it's not possible to re-record something that maybe took you three days in an afternoon, is it? So what would happen, it was common practice, you'd go to a studio, you would pretend to record the song, someone might come from the Musicians Union and check up, or they might not and you'd take them 'round the pub and you'd swap the tapes. Everyone knew about this and it was pathetic, Steve, and the first couple of times it was funny but after seventeen times of spending an afternoon in the studio pretending, it gets tedious. If they said to us say like "It Must Be Love", I mean most of our records it was only us playing on them anyway so what did it matter, you know, we weren't bothered. So in "It Must Be Love" we had string players and we would happily just reimburse the string players, pay them again for the session so that was quite tedious.
I can remember loads of funny things like when we did "Driving In My Car", this is before samples or anything like that, the handbrake and all those noises you know (makes car noises), it was like some old codgy radio show with someone doing special effects. Somebody got a handbrake from a car, this guy who worked for us, John Wynne, and he kind of screwed it to a bit of wood and somebody stood on the wood (makes more horn and grinding car noises) so that was quite funny, whereas years later, you'd just go online and find a sample of a car handbrake or a car horn and just put them all in. But I think they were all physically recorded as an instrument. They might have put them on a little bit of tape, you see that was interesting, wasn't it, Steve? That's better than the other story about Hairy Bollocks.
SB: I am riveted. No, Hairy Bollocks was pretty good, too. Either or. Okay, well I think we're gonna get out of your hair. One last thing, have you checked your socks?
CB: Yeah here they are...
SB: Are they tied, are they untied?
CB: I'm gonna get some socks with string in for you, mate.
SB: Is there anything you want to say to the subscribers of Madness Central before we boogie out of here?
CB: Yes ... er, no. (laughs) I can't think of anything, Steve. They don't have to pay, do they? It's all free, it's fantastic.
SB: It's all free.
CB: I promise to be a subscriber.
SB: Well thank you very much, Chris.
CB: Alright Steve, it was a pleasure.
23 October 2008
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